Originally posted on November 4, 2022 @ 7:17 AM
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Seek advice on culture from a safety engineer. -
Undertake a survey in ‘safety culture’ that is not about culture or safety.
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Use a popular investigation method on the market.
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Define Safety by injury rates.
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Worship Zero.
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Only read safety books.
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Only listen to safety podcasts.
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Only study safety curriculum.
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Only follow safety associations.
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Download safety checklists and don’t think for yourself.
Dr Rob Long
Expert in Social Psychology, Principal & Trainer at Human Dymensions
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PhD., MEd., MOH., BEd., BTh., Dip T., Dip Min., Cert IV TAA, MRMIA
Rob is the founder of Human Dymensions and has extensive experience, qualifications and expertise across a range of sectors including government, education, corporate, industry and community sectors over 30 years. Rob has worked at all levels of the education and training sector including serving on various post graduate executive, post graduate supervision, post graduate course design and implementation programs.
adf74 says
George Go onto any site, talk to the guys that know and listen. You will learn more than teaching/telling. It, works for me.
George says
Seek advice on culture from a safety engineer (who does this in the real world?).
Undertake a survey in ‘safety culture’ that is not about culture or safety (who does this in the real world?)..
Use a popular investigation method on the market (Like what?)
Define Safety by injury rates (Who defines safety from a lagging indicator?).
Worship Zero (who worships zero? It’s only a goal driven by leading indicator, proactive safety).
Only read safety books (Says who?).
Only listen to safety podcasts (Says who?).
Only study safety curriculum (Says who?).
Only follow safety associations (Says who?).
Download safety checklists and don’t think for yourself (You have no idea what goes on in the real world of safety).
Wynand says
In the real world I have seen culture advice being tsken not even from an engineer but from a safety trained former artisan. And in the same company the psychologist was so indoctrinated he could not be discerning any more. I took part an culture surveys that only tested the level of indoctrination and not culture. So I can safely answer for at least one company who did this in the real world. How is Zero an indicator (leading or lagging)? I will gladly take advice from a psychologist who has never worked as a safety guy if he is competent. Does a psychologist have to suffer from PTSD to be able to treat PTSD? Does a doctor have to have a history of heart failure to treat a heart attack? Experience is not necessarily the only (or best) teacher.
Rob Long says
George, last 4 books I read on safety culture were written by engineers, one suggesting the best thing to do about safety culture was to NOT talk about it.
Re surveys, I have looked at most on the market and they don’t analyse culture, they are systems surveys and again, many constructed and run by engineers or a safety engineering worldview.
Pick any investigations method and tell me its philosophy/bias? Then let me know if the method is open or linear or what it assumes about ethics?
The whole industry defines safety by injury rates, it doesn’t matter if lag or lead, its still framing injury as the foundation of safety. Why do you think the global mantra for safety is zero? Because the global industry defines safety by an injury number.
Zero is the industry global ideology, its not just a goal, have a look at the Spirit of Zero and tell me its NOT a religion: https://safetyrisk.net/the-spirit-of-zero/
Many get sacked for contesting zero.
Ah the olde chestnut, I have no idea what goes on in safety. Was on a teir 1 building site today because they are screaming out for help with safety culture. Your arrogance about my experience and capability is astounding> I know more about the so called real world of safety than you will ever get sunshine! My work is undertaken globally by many organisations that are happy to tell what a difference my work has made to ther real world of safety.
Admin says
To address your first point – which peak US safety body only removed “Engineers” from its name and replaced it with “Professionals” in 2018? Not much has changed in that organisation since then, except that they recently become global pandemic experts as well.
Brian says
1. Should be – Seek advice on culture from a safety psychologist who’s never worked as a Safety Guy in his entire life.
Admin says
I’m not sure being a ‘safety guy’ your entire life gives you any real clues on culture, or anything at all really, except on what just doesn’t work
Rob Long says
Pychologists are not experts in culture. safety people have no expertise in culture.